McCain: In The 21st Century Nations Don't Invade Other Nations

[McDanger]

Def. couldent have said it any better myself. Totally agree with this post. Some people need to live a couple weeks in a third world country so they can value what they really have here.

You people are never satisified. Unhappy if we're out of conflict and unhappy if we are in conflict. Tell me one politician who hasn't said something during their time in office that makes absolutely no sense.

I can point out quite a few Obama has done himself and even more among the rest of congress.

You are chastising him over something that is honestly irrelevant. Why don't we look at the situation for what it is instead. Russia bullying around a smaller country. Yes you can compare the United States to Iraq, but at what point do we decide to be "bigger" than that.

However I get the feeling if we condemn or berate Russia everyone here will just call the United States a hypocrite and rightly so; what is messed up however is knowing that there is no satisfying a majority of the people that have been complaining no matter what the United States has done.

Regardless of the international situation you will find a reason to dislike the US; and this deeply saddens me that my own fellow Americans can be so ashamed and self hating of their country without reason. I say without reason because the typical reasons brought up would require you to hold disdain for the rest of the world also.

I totally agree.
And technically we did not invade Iraq, this was a continuation of operation Desert Storm after Sadaam violated the ceasefire agreement and 14 UN resolutions. All we did was enforce the resolutions the pussies at the UN refused to do.

[psychocat]

Nato and the UN are hardly likely to find in favour of any country that does not bend to it's will or recognise thier supposed right to tell other countries what they can and cannot do.
They are both examples of my gang is bigger than your gang so you have to do what we say.
They are both also very heavily influenced by the vested interests of thier member states , including thier financial and military supremacy.

Even if you allow for the fantasy that the INVASION of Iraq was a continuation of the gulf war that still does not explain Afghanistan.

The situation in Georgia was started by Georgia and the west is guilty of the worst double standards , anyone remember the reason for the first invasion of the gulf state Iraq ?
That's right , Iraq attempted to reclaim something (Kuwait) that once belonged to thier country and the west attacked with maximum prejudice.
Now that Russia is attempting to deter Georgia from "reclaiming" Ossetia the west is saying "don't do as we do , do as we say"!

[daihashi]

Nato and the UN are hardly likely to find in favour of any country that does not bend to it's will or recognise thier supposed right to tell other countries what they can and cannot do.
They are both examples of my gang is bigger than your gang so you have to do what we say.
They are both also very heavily influenced by the vested interests of thier member states , including thier financial and military supremacy.

Very much so, and this is precisely the reason I call the UN a joke. It is very much biased and skewed to support large nations influences on smaller ones. Furthermore no Nation should have Veto Power. If any nation with veto power has a vested interest in what's going on (ie: like Russia does with Georgia) than any resolution brought to the table can be expected to be vetoed.

The UN is even more flawed than the US government in the way it is setup.

Even if you allow for the fantasy that the INVASION of Iraq was a continuation of the gulf war that still does not explain Afghanistan.

So the fact that The Taliban was harboring a Terrorist group, Al Queda, was not justification enough for us to go in there? I mean Al Qaeda did claim responsibility for 9/11. Let's not forget either that even though no WMD's were found; there is evidence linking Iraq to Al Qaeda and terrorist activities. While that does not justify our invasion it does show that our "fantasy" is a bit more than just a "fantasy" as you describe.

The situation in Georgia was started by Georgia and the west is guilty of the worst double standards , anyone remember the reason for the first invasion of the gulf state Iraq ?
That's right , Iraq attempted to reclaim something (Kuwait) that once belonged to thier country and the west attacked with maximum prejudice.

you're partially right but mostly wrong. The war was really about money. Iraq was broke as hell after a 10 year war with Iran. Here is an excerpt from wikipedia summarizing the tensions that led to the conflict. I normally don't source wikipedia however this is just a summary of the situation prior to the first gulf war breaking out

When the ceasefire with Iran was signed in August 1988, Iraq was virtually bankrupt and heavily indebted to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Those two nations had funded Iraq due to shared antagonism towards the Iranian regime. Iraq's economy was further damaged when the following year, in open defiance of OPEC quotas, Kuwait increased its oil production by 40 percent. The collapse in oil prices had a catastrophic impact on the Iraqi economy. The Iraqi government described it as a form of economic warfare, which it claimed was aggravated by Kuwait slant-drilling across the border into Iraq's Rumaila oil field. [13]

Kuwait had been part of the Ottoman province of Basra, and although its ruling dynasty, the al-Sabah family, had concluded a protectorate agreement in 1899 that assigned responsibility for its foreign affairs to Britain, it did not make any attempt to secede from the Ottoman Empire. For this reason, Iraqi governments had always refused to accept Kuwait's separation, and its borders were never clearly defined or mutually agreed.[citation needed] The British High Commissioner drew lines that deliberately constricted Iraq's access to the ocean so that any future Iraqi government would be in no position to threaten Britain's domination of the Persian Gulf.

Don't paint Iraq to be so innocent. It's not like Kuwait recently succeeded from Iraq or what not; it had been nearly a century. Georgia and Ossetia have only recently split in the last 15 years or so. During which tensions have been on the rise and a pseudo idle war/cold war has taken place. It's not like they just forgot about each other.

Now that Russia is attempting to deter Georgia from "reclaiming" Ossetia the west is saying "don't do as we do , do as we say"!

Show me a nation that is innocent of this? It certainly isn't your country or any of the other nations that have played any signifigance in the world over the last century or so. It does not make anything right but you choose to isolate 1 nation and berate them while disregarding the rest. If you choose to chastise the United States (even though Russia is the one who was a bit over zealous in their attack) for telling Russia to stop simply because it contradicts what we've done in the past.. then you must equally hold all nations in disdain.

[daihashi]

Def. couldent have said it any better myself. Totally agree with this post. Some people need to live a couple weeks in a third world country so they can value what they really have here.

How true this is. My work as a contractor has taken me over seas to quite a few third world countries. Angola, Cameroon... and quite a few other nations in Africa for extended periods of time (out of the United states more than 80% of the year for 5 years).

I've also spent time in other socialist/communist nations. You people have no idea how bad the world honestly is.

[psychocat]

I fail to see how timescale has any influence on a countries claim to territory.
Every country in the world is guilty of harbouring terrorists of some description, after all one mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
I did not single out any nation , that was done by the very nature of the OP, the last time I looked McCain was an American.
For a possible future president of the USA to proclaim that invasion is wrong after all the invasions they have instigated is simply ludicrous.
I made no attempt to justify Iraq / Kuwait , I simply pointed out that America and Britain invaded Iraq because of the same reasons that Russian troops now occupy Georgia.
How is it possible to say "It's okay for us to protect Kuwait by attacking Iraq but it isn't okay for Russia to do the same to Georgia"?

BTW my disdain isn't reserved for any particular nation (read my sig )

[rebgirl420]

You people are never satisified. Unhappy if we're out of conflict and unhappy if we are in conflict. Tell me one politician who hasn't said something during their time in office that makes absolutely no sense.

I can point out quite a few Obama has done himself and even more among the rest of congress.

You are chastising him over something that is honestly irrelevant. Why don't we look at the situation for what it is instead. Russia bullying around a smaller country. Yes you can compare the United States to Iraq, but at what point do we decide to be "bigger" than that.

However I get the feeling if we condemn or berate Russia everyone here will just call the United States a hypocrite and rightly so; what is messed up however is knowing that there is no satisfying a majority of the people that have been complaining no matter what the United States has done.

Regardless of the international situation you will find a reason to dislike the US; and this deeply saddens me that my own fellow Americans can be so ashamed and self hating of their country without reason. I say without reason because the typical reasons brought up would require you to hold disdain for the rest of the world also.

Fucking Brilliant! *claps*

As I read the opening texts I thought exactly this.

[Markass]

You people are never satisified. Unhappy if we're out of conflict and unhappy if we are in conflict. Tell me one politician who hasn't said something during their time in office that makes absolutely no sense.

I can point out quite a few Obama has done himself and even more among the rest of congress.

You are chastising him over something that is honestly irrelevant. Why don't we look at the situation for what it is instead. Russia bullying around a smaller country. Yes you can compare the United States to Iraq, but at what point do we decide to be "bigger" than that.

However I get the feeling if we condemn or berate Russia everyone here will just call the United States a hypocrite and rightly so; what is messed up however is knowing that there is no satisfying a majority of the people that have been complaining no matter what the United States has done.

Regardless of the international situation you will find a reason to dislike the US; and this deeply saddens me that my own fellow Americans can be so ashamed and self hating of their country without reason. I say without reason because the typical reasons brought up would require you to hold disdain for the rest of the world also.

Trust me, I have plenty of reason to dislike the present state that my country is in. Mainly because I have to pay nearly $2,500 for hurting noone at all by having less than 1 gram of marijuana in a small keychain, and I get to spend a year of my life thinking about why I can smoke cigarettes and eventually die from it but I cannot smoke marijuana if I wish to not die and be able to quit easily when I want to. Another because my car is fucked up from 10% ethanol being tainted into my gasoline and me not being warned it would fuck my car up until it was too late. A few hundred dollars later in parts and hours of my time, and it's still not fixed, putting pure gasoline through it doesn't fix it. That alone is enough reason for me to dislike the way things are in my country, just so that some rich fatass fucking oil tycoon can sit back after 20 tankers full of gasoline have 1 free tanker for the 10% ethanol he put in there.

Do I think it's right to tell other countries how to live and what to do?? fuck no, because if any country came here to tell us how to live, we would do the same thing Iraqi's are doing; fighting back to defend their country. We ARE DOING the same thing to Iraq. Who gives a shit, look how much a 1/2 gallon of milk costs, how many of our bridges and roads are poorly maintained. Fuck spending money for another country, we should come first priority, not any other nation. That, my friend, is why I'm unhappy with the way things are going in my country.

John Mccain got 30-40 minutes in some debates, Ron Paul was given 2-5 minutes in debates, that is why I'm unhappy with the way things are in my country. The man who says the constitution is important to follow got pushed under the rug as much as possible. That's why I'm unhappy with the way things are in my country.

[IrieIrie]

Trust me, I have plenty of reason to dislike the present state that my country is in. Mainly because I have to pay nearly $2,500 for hurting noone at all by having less than 1 gram of marijuana in a small keychain, and I get to spend a year of my life thinking about why I can smoke cigarettes and eventually die from it but I cannot smoke marijuana if I wish to not die and be able to quit easily when I want to. Another because my car is fucked up from 10% ethanol being tainted into my gasoline and me not being warned it would fuck my car up until it was too late. A few hundred dollars later in parts and hours of my time, and it's still not fixed, putting pure gasoline through it doesn't fix it. That alone is enough reason for me to dislike the way things are in my country, just so that some rich fatass fucking oil tycoon can sit back after 20 tankers full of gasoline have 1 free tanker for the 10% ethanol he put in there.

Do I think it's right to tell other countries how to live and what to do?? fuck no, because if any country came here to tell us how to live, we would do the same thing Iraqi's are doing; fighting back to defend their country. We ARE DOING the same thing to Iraq. Who gives a shit, look how much a 1/2 gallon of milk costs, how many of our bridges and roads are poorly maintained. Fuck spending money for another country, we should come first priority, not any other nation. That, my friend, is why I'm unhappy with the way things are going in my country.

John Mccain got 30-40 minutes in some debates, Ron Paul was given 2-5 minutes in debates, that is why I'm unhappy with the way things are in my country. The man who says the constitution is important to follow got pushed under the rug as much as possible. That's why I'm unhappy with the way things are in my country.

while some people said daihashi's post was fucking brilliant, i say your post is fucking brilliant. i replied with iraq topic just because it's a thought i had in my head and figured it was a good place to get it out. i didn't even watch that stupid video of that old ass mccain shitting in his diaper. he's not worth my time, just like any other lying politician that disrespects what our founders have laid out for us. anyone from america will say that our country is the land of the free and the home of the brave. i say it used to be. not enough people realize what is truly going on and not enough people are willing to do anything about it.

[daihashi]

Trust me, I have plenty of reason to dislike the present state that my country is in. Mainly because I have to pay nearly $2,500 for hurting noone at all by having less than 1 gram of marijuana in a small keychain, and I get to spend a year of my life thinking about why I can smoke cigarettes and eventually die from it but I cannot smoke marijuana if I wish to not die and be able to quit easily when I want to. Another because my car is fucked up from 10% ethanol being tainted into my gasoline and me not being warned it would fuck my car up until it was too late. A few hundred dollars later in parts and hours of my time, and it's still not fixed, putting pure gasoline through it doesn't fix it. That alone is enough reason for me to dislike the way things are in my country, just so that some rich fatass fucking oil tycoon can sit back after 20 tankers full of gasoline have 1 free tanker for the 10% ethanol he put in there.

So your entire basis for disliking the country is Marijuana and your car that broke down. I'm sorry to hear about your problems but if this is why you hate this country then I'd hate to see what you'd do in Angola.

Do I think it's right to tell other countries how to live and what to do?? fuck no, because if any country came here to tell us how to live, we would do the same thing Iraqi's are doing; fighting back to defend their country. We ARE DOING the same thing to Iraq. Who gives a shit, look how much a 1/2 gallon of milk costs, how many of our bridges and roads are poorly maintained. Fuck spending money for another country, we should come first priority, not any other nation. That, my friend, is why I'm unhappy with the way things are going in my country.

I agree we shouldn't be in Iraq; however we're there and we have a job that we have to see through. Whether you realize it or not International law/issues play a large role in the cost that we pay here domestically.

Roads are maintained through the states by means of federal funding. Yes we have bridges that need to be repaired and milk is expensive; but are these honestly your only complaints with the United States? This is your chance to make a solid argument on behalf of the people that are self-hating and you choose Marijuana, Bridges and Milk?

John Mccain got 30-40 minutes in some debates, Ron Paul was given 2-5 minutes in debates, that is why I'm unhappy with the way things are in my country. The man who says the constitution is important to follow got pushed under the rug as much as possible. That's why I'm unhappy with the way things are in my country

I couldn't agree with this more. I am unhappy that unless you are a conservative or liberal that you will not have anyone back you. Ron Paul is amazing and while I question some of his ideas for the economy I strongly feel he would've been a better candidate than McCain or Obama; but that's just our opinion.

[Markass]

So your entire basis for disliking the country is Marijuana and your car that broke down. I'm sorry to hear about your problems but if this is why you hate this country then I'd hate to see what you'd do in Angola.



I agree we shouldn't be in Iraq; however we're there and we have a job that we have to see through. Whether you realize it or not International law/issues play a large role in the cost that we pay here domestically.

Roads are maintained through the states by means of federal funding. Yes we have bridges that need to be repaired and milk is expensive; but are these honestly your only complaints with the United States? This is your chance to make a solid argument on behalf of the people that are self-hating and you choose Marijuana, Bridges and Milk?



I couldn't agree with this more. I am unhappy that unless you are a conservative or liberal that you will not have anyone back you. Ron Paul is amazing and while I question some of his ideas for the economy I strongly feel he would've been a better candidate than McCain or Obama; but that's just our opinion.

your missing the fact that my car is fucked up and running shitty because ethanol was mandated in our fuel. Not only is milk expensive, but everything is expensive. Why? Because of all the money our government is wasting. The drug war is senseless, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people are arrested every year for merely having something to do with marijuana. A victimless crime. I don't know if you've been arrested for possessing less than a gram and sentenced to a year deferred sentence or not, but if you have you should understand it's a little ri-fucking-diculous, especially the fact that I have to take drug tests every month.

If you love america so much that you don't realize it's being ran by big business you're in denial. Marijuana is illegal because it's a threat to pharmaceutical industries and them being able to charge $10 a dose for medications.

Why do the legal drug dealers known as tobacco companies grow tobacco in radioactive soil and taint tobacco with plenty of harmful chemicals, and increase the nicotine every year?? Because they make $4-6 a pack, and if people are hooked they get their money. Why wont the government regulate the amounts of nicotine and harmful chemicals added? Because then people might just be able to easily quit, like they can with marijuana.

Did you really miss the concept that my car runs shitty because of there being 10% ethanol in my fuel without me knowing about it being in there as well that it was likely to fuck my car up?

I dislike the way things are going in my country because it's all about the money. It's not about the people. I'm done with this argument.

And if you'd like to imply that I'm not patriotic, just because of what I think about the government, you couldn't be more wrong. The day that a country invades MY country, I will take up arms and defend MY country. NEVER will I defend another person's country. EVER.

"Commerce with all nations, Alliance with none."